Hi, it's Kevin McIntyre from EZCD.com. I'm here in the confines of the EZCD.com building ...

Artie: The bowels of the EZCD.com fortress? 

KM The bowels of the fortress, yes.
Phil: Covered with flow charts of things that are going to happen in the future, waiting till they go public 
with millions of dollars. Buy stock now!

KM We're sitting with two members of Errortype:11... Artie Shepherd and Phil ...
Phil: (whispering)-. Hanratty.

KM: Right. We were talking about labels and the new counter production mode, or counter distribution mode of 
music that we've seen a lot of lately and you were saying, Artie, that you were at your friend's place and you were watching 
her download an MP3?
Artie: Yeah, I was watching her download it and it was amazing, like a lunch hour. It took like fifteen minutes and 
I just thought that was so cool. She doesn't have one of those portable MP3 players to walk around with or anything, but 
she has on her computer and listens to it all day. If I could just take our CD around to everyone like that, it would be so cool.

KM: So that doesn't scare you?
Artie: If I was an artist who was worried about a huge debt, say like the Goo Goo Dolls on Behind the Music the 
other day. They were talking about that. They'd sold like 2 million records and they still owed money. Of course they owe 
money. I don't know who the hell was doing their accounting. What brain surgeons they were not to realize this. But if I was 
in that situation and people were getting my music for free, I might be upset, but I can't even relate to that thing. I just want 
people to get it. Distribution of Indie labels is not good and any way the people can get the music is great and the internet 
is by far the greatest thing in the world for Indie music. It'll get corrupted eventually, but right now it's cool.

KM: When you say it'll get corrupted are you saying the channels of distribution or the money that goes into it or… 
Phil: Just the level altogether of where it can get to. There's a certain level Indie music can get to, period. And then 
it just won't be paid attention to or pushed. You'll sell 60,000 records is the top.
Artie: There are bands that go further than that and sell 100,000 records or something, like Fugazi. But Fugazi 
was a fluke. Of course they deserve it because they're great. But the Offspring is a complete fluke. They're not even good. 
I don't know how the hell that happened, but those guys can barely play their instruments, and more power to them. But 
it was definitely the right time, right place, all that stuff. And they took it and went with it, and they've proven everyone wrong 
by selling millions more records. So again, more power to them. Just because I'm not a fan ...

KM: So it's not always about talent, then, in some respects.
Artie: It's never about talent It's got nothing to do with talent. The day you forget to be a musician is the day you 
can actually be good. My favorite type of music is "prog rock." Yes is my favorite band ever, the greatest five musicians 
to ever be together in a room and play music. But they were never really successful because who the hell wants to listen 
to a 20-minute song? The American public for the most part is, well Limp Bizkit, is a perfect example of the lowest 
common denominator and that's what popular music is all about - reaching the lowest common denominator.

KM: I was thinking Devo for a second there. You have the gimmick on one hand and the music only has to 
be strong enough to support the gimmick.
Artie: Yeah, if you have a kitchy song, you'll be a one hit wonder. But, if you have that kitchy song, you can make 
a lot of money for yourself. So, yeah, I don't think it has much to do with talent. It has to do with being smart, business-wise. 
But it has a lot to do with being lucky. A whole lot.

KM: What about the business element of promoting yourself? To the point where a larger label might take a 
look at you?
Phil: I think there's bands that do it great. But I think most of those bands don't live in very expensive places like 
New York City. I know personally, for us, five tours a year leaves us broke. There's only so much self-promotion we can 
do as a band, other than websites, mailing lists, and touring.  There's bands that do it great, like from the South, the 
Midwest, that can afford to leave their homes for half a year, pay their rent, and play a million places.

(A phone rings in the studio.) 

KM: Oh, that's right, this is a call-in show. 
Phil: Edit this out.

KM: (pretending to answer the phone) Yes, you're on!
Artie: Yeah, so we can't just take off like some other bands, we've got to pay rent.

KM: How much are you guys paying if you don't mind me asking?
Artie: No figures, man.

KM: That's alright, no disclosure on this show. So where are you guys paying rent these days?
Artie: You mean where are we living? 

KM: Are you guys from New York City?
Artie: I'm from Long Island and he's from Ireland, but we're living in Queens. But the rent here sucks. I'm living off 
of money I made when I was fifteen when I was a busboy. I don't mean to complain because obviously it was our choice 
to be in a band. I had a good job, I lost it because of touring. I could get another job if I wanted to, but we want to see this 
band through. And self-promotion is all about touring. There's only so much Indie labels can do, then you have to sell 
yourself after that.

KM: What kinds of work do you guys do outside the band?
Artie: I temp, basically.
Phil: Graphic design. For websites and magazines. 
Artie: Pom.
Phil: Porn magazines. No, edit that out. 
Artie: Edit it in, what are you talking about?

KM: Going back to this whole talent thing, what do you think is the ratio of bands that break in because of their 
talent and bands that break in just because they're good at self-promotion?
Artie: I'd say it's about fifty-fifty. For the most part, again, I think a lot of it is about lucky breaks. You self-promote 
yourself to a point, and that's as far as you can do it yourself. But then because of all the promotion you've done, someone 
else picks up the ball and runs with it. For the most part, I think that's pretty much how it is.
Phil: I know a lot of Indie bands who do it like they want to, are as popular as they want to be, when the little clique 
they play in becomes the next year on radio. What they're playing is the next hit. So they get their minute of fame, and then 
they're gone forever.

KM: I was reading an article in Billboard or Spin that said that "Rock is Dead."
Artie: Just look at the top 50 of Billboard, look who's representing Rock... Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock? Just a 
bunch of white guys rapping, which is sad outside of the Beastie Boys!

KM: But somehow for it's alright for them.
Artie: Yeah, and it seems alright for Limp Bizkit, too, but I don't know where you become a homey in Jacksonville, 
Florida. I guess we're not getting signed to Interscope now. You better edit this out, too. But Chris Rock said it great the 
other day. He said, "There's no cool white guys anymore, they're all trying to be black." He was saying "Where's Axl Rose, 
where's David Lee Roth?" But everything is just so lowest common denominator these days, so I just think that something 
is going to rise out. There will be another Nirvana. It's so cynical. When Nirvana got signed, all those Indie labels got signed 
and not a lot of them have been dropped. But with the internet involved now, who knows? But I really believe that something 
out of the ashes of Korn, and Limp Bizkit, something will rise up. I think Korn is the best of that group but something is 
going to come out of it, something cool. Hopefully, it's us. Buy our record!

KM: And you guys were on Some Records? 
Artie: Yeah. 

KM: And now you're on Crank?
Artie: No, we were for the last one and now we're on Some again.

KM: How does that work?
Artie: We strictly do one-ofis with the labels. Basically we write a lot of material. I don't like long albums, though. The 
perfect album to me is like 30 minutes. But anyway, at the time, we were touring and we had a lot of offers from different 
labels and one of them was Crank. I wasn't very familiar with them but Phil was and he said they had really good distro.
So we did like five songs that we had extra and eleven for our new album with Some. But there's really good bands on those 
labels ...  Fireside with Crank, or Six Going On Seven ... who put out my favorite album of last year on Some. 
So I think we're associated with the bands that I think represent the labels well, and represent us well. But we 
just wanted to throw something out in between the two Some albums.

KM: Were you happy with the Crank EP?
Phil: Yeah, I think it's one of the coolest things we've ever done and yet, it's something people will never see from 
us again.  It's a mix of every type of music that we like and you just don't get to write albums like this one.
Artie: When we were making the album for Some, we wanted it to be cohesive, but those five songs we did for 
Crank were really kind of different So we wanted to separate them.

KM: So it's not about songs that didn't make an album, they just didn't fit ...
Artie: Exactly.
Phil: Plus Crank opened the door for us to go to the West Coast, too.
Artie: Yeah that was a theory we picked up ... to put out a lot of material. Because, if you're on an Indie label, you 
may as well have a lot of Indie people working for you. So with us, with being on Crank and Some, we've got people 
working on the West Coast, East Coast, and our names are being mentioned more because there's more people 
working for us. I think that's a smart way of doing things.
Phil: The more people see it you just can't ignore it. A friend of mine said, "Just keep on touring, and eventually 
they'll be forced to go see you." You just can't ignore it.
Artie: Unless you totally suck.
Phil:  But even if you totally suck, which is the case with a lot of bands ...

KM: Don't fall prey to that trap. 
Artie: Yeah. We try not to suck.

KM: When you guys put the Crank EP together, you sajd they were land of random. But, when you put an album 
together, do you try to make them all fit or do you write songs that fit a certain theme?
Artie: At first I tried to write lyrics that way but, God, I'm not John Anderson, and I just can't do it. I wish I could write 
the Prog Rock record that I want to write. But I think more in terms of the music than the lyrics anyway. Like for us, we think 
about the tunings, like we write most of our songs in Drop D. But when you write an album you'll want everything to be 
smooth. So I think a lot about segues ... it's about thinking about how to make songs fit. And the segues ... well, to me, 
that's what makes a great record. It's not about the songs. But making a great record is a lost art. Bands have a great 
song, a few great songs, not many bands have great records. So that's the idea for us. We write a lot of stuff, we narrow 
it down, and then we kind of make it fit.

KM: So what do you think is the best record to come out lately?
Artie: Robbie Williams, "The Eagle Has Landed." 

KM: And, you?
Phil: I don't know. The album I've listened to the most over the past year is probably the Six Going On Seven record.
Artie: Yeah, I look at that album as the prototype. It was like only 26 minutes long but it left you wanting more. This 
is an EP-type record that they sold for a LP prices. It was just such a brilliant idea. And I have to say like I mentioned before, 
Fireside is also a great album. When we're out on tour, we're either listening to Fireside, Six Going on Seven, or 
Foreigner's Greatest Hits.

KM: You mentioned cheeky, kitchy rock... but the question I'm trying to ask is that when you put an album together, 
everybody's got their "kitchy" element song. And I wonder if you rank the songs on you're album and predict which 
ones might be the ones to break.
Artie: Absolutely. There's a song on the new album called "Things that make you want to kiss me," originally titled
"Kiss Me" until that stupid Sixpence None the Richer song came out which I friggin' hate ... ever hear of the Sunday's, 
it's like the Christian Sundays. And then they cover a Laws song, a great Laws song... don't even get me started. 
Anyway, I wrote the chorus for this particular song which is a good example of what you're talking about Because 
when I wrote it, I thought, "Wow, I don't know if this is going to work for us as a band." But we laid it down in practice 
and it was a by the numbers, top forty radio pop song, minus maybe my voice as an A&R guy might say. Three weeks 
later this Sixpence None the Richer song comes out and I gotta change the name of the song because Some all of 
sudden says they want to go to commercial radio with this song. So yeah, you think about what songs will break and 
how to tap into that. It's all about publishing, tapping into a soundtrack. That's the big bucks.

KM: What is the origin of the name Errortype: 11?
Phil: It's a system shutdown on your computer, anyone who works with a Mac, it's a full system shutdown and 
you lose everything, all your work is gone.
Artie: Which makes people hate us from the get go. I've actually gotten hate mail from people who wrote me that they've 
never gotten an Errortype: 11 until I heard of your band. In the beginning it was always people either completely got it or 
had no idea what we were talking about.

KM: That's alright.
Phil: Yeah, on our website, which we hadn't paid for in a while, the server pulled all-our shit off and just left 
an animated sign for Errortype: 11 which was kind of perfect. I thought it was really funny.

KM: Ok, just one more question: What was the last thing you pulled out of your garbage?
Artie: My whole room is garbage. I don't know. Probably a beer can to put in the recycling bin.

KM: Are you pretty adamant about recycling? 
Artie: No, I could care less.
Phil: The last thing I pulled out of the garbage was my skate shoes that my roomates threw away because 
they thought it smelled so bad they would throw it out for me. 


Errortype: 11's new EP on Crank! Records is out now. 
Their new album, Amplified To Rock, will be released by Some Records on 1/11/00.
COLLEGIATE MONTHLY 101 - OCTOBER 1999